RE: Adam from Dust

From: Stuart d Kirkley (
Date: Mon Jul 15 2002 - 18:54:46 EDT

  • Next message: Dick Fischer: "Re: ID: A tent for all theists?"

    Stuart Kirkley adds:

    On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:24:34
      Dick Fischer wrote:
    >Glenn Morton wrote:
    >>This has always been a bit of a puzzle to me about Dick's God. God says
    >>that he reaches out to mankind, that he doesn't want anyone to perish. Yet,
    >>here, in this view, God makes no covenant with any man until 4004 BC when he
    >>decides that maybe he should make contact with mankind and tell them the
    >>true theological path. It is kind of like an afterthought-- as if God said,
    >>"Oh, what are those funny creatures walking on two sticks and yabbering like
    >>crows? Maybe I should speak with them." Of course it matters not that
    >>nearly 10 billion people were left without any communication with God--not
    >>even a communication they could reject. God didn't care enough to
    >>communicate with them in any fashion--he left them to their own devices.
    >>What a loving God!
    >The amazing thing about the grace of God is that He extends it to us
    >at all. We have no earthly comprehension of His holiness or His
    >standards of righteousness. Isaiah thought he was a fairly righteous
    >fellow when he compared himself to his peers, but when he was given
    >of glimpse of the glory of God, he got a reality check: "Woe is me!
    >for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in
    >the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the
    >King, the Lord of hosts" (Isa. 6:5).
    >The very fact God has offered us a provision to come into His
    >presence is an overwhelming concession. We are lowly creatures after
    >all. We only have exalted status on this earth because we can see
    >ourselves in the company of lesser creatures. Surrounded by dogs and
    >cats and various unaccountable animal life we may look pretty good:
    >intelligent, bipedal, loving creatures. Yet we can kill members of
    >our own species, even our own family members, for reasons other than
    >food. How many of God's lesser creatures do that?

      SK writes:

    Perhaps Dick would like to contemplate what the Psalmist was
    considering when he wrote Psalm 8: 'What is man... and the son of
    man...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast
    crowned him with glory and honour...'
    The Psalmist seemed to have a higher idea of God's man than what you
    have presented here. Is this not the man of Genesis 1:26-28, whom
    God saw, and behold, was found to be very good. Is this not the man
    which the Psalmist again refers to when he exhorts us to uphold in
    our thought in Ps 37:37 " Mark the perfect man and behold the
    upright: for the end of that man is peace'. Perhaps you are too
    fixated on the false man presented in Genesis 2, the Adam man, or
    adamant presentation of man as mortal, fallen, imperfect and mutable,
    which is the opposite presentation of the perfect creation of Genesis
    >You may think that there were humans worthy of salvation earlier than
    >God thought so. But I trust in God's timing. And if you don't like
    >God's timing, you are stuck with it anyway. Probably the only reason
    >I find comfort in God's timing is because I have had a longer period
    >of time to think about it. Sure I have questions. Why did God
    >create Satan or the rest of the heavenly host that fell to earth in
    >Satan's rebellion against God? Why not snuff them all out Ananias
    >and Sapphira style? (Acts 5:1-5).
    >The fact is that His ways are higher, and His thought are higher, and
    >we aren't privy, except that He has made a book available to us, and
    >through the Holy Spirit, there are those who He may communicate with
    >as it pleasures Him. But there seems to be a few things He doesn't
    >bother to tell us outright. However, if we have submitted ourselves
    >to Jesus Christ and have questions, search His Word, are willing to
    >be taught, have a humble attitude, and do an honest search, we may be

    Well said, but in referring to what I wrote above, and in
    consideration of what you have written here, it could only do you
    good to consider again what the Psalmist meant. The writer of Hebrews
    had a pretty good handle on this issue and gives a very good
    summation in Hebrews 2: 6-18.

    with respect
    Stuart Kirkley
    >Dick Fischer - The Origins Solution -
    >"The answer we should have known about 150 years ago"

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