Re: ID: A tent for all theists?

From: Dick Fischer (
Date: Mon Jul 15 2002 - 19:17:00 EDT

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    Shuan Rose wrote:

    >Presumably ID is supposed to be a big tent uniting theists (all of whom
    >believe that God is the creator?/designer? against antireligious
    >evolutionists, like Dawkins, Dennett, Provine etc. Yet it has not worked out
    >that way, with many religious thinkers attacking ID. Why? Are'nt Phillip,
    >Jonathon et al. on our side , fighting against the forces of darkness, led
    >by the Lord of Hellfire himself, Dawkins? (OK, maybe he isn't THE Lord of
    >Hellfire, but IMO he may be one of his minions :-)
    >Well, Glenn, George? Do you think you are giving aid and comfort to the
    >enemy by "lining up" with , say, Dawkins & Eugene Scott against defenders of
    >theism like Phillip Johnson and Jonathon Wells.? Even if they are wrong
    >about a few technical and theological issues, shouldn't we being lining up
    >with them ?

    Excuse me for addressing a question not addressed to me.

    The one common denominator for all ASA members is that we are
    professing Christians and hold to certain essentials of the faith:
    the prophetic announcements, the virgin birth, that Christ was
    without sin, that He performed miracles, vicarious atonement, shed
    blood for remission of sin, the resurrection of the dead, and the
    second coming (we probably vary a bit about that). We beat each
    other about the head and ears on non-essentials. Did Adam have a
    navel? Was the flood global or local, and blah, blah, blah.

    Many on this list have devoted much thought and discussion on the
    implications of science, and the vast majority of us agree that no
    revelations of science, biological evolution included, negatively
    impact our faith, all things considered. We have nothing to fear
    from honest science that is theistically neutral.

    Where scientists venture into theology, and conclude that biological
    evolution excludes God, we have an answer for that, and we could
    voice it if we weren't being drowned out by the Johnsons and Wells of
    the world.

    Christ and the New Testament writers did not warn us of scientific
    revelations to come. We are warned repeatedly against false
    prophets. Judaizers infiltrated the early church at the time of
    Paul. Gnostics followed. Today, we have Mormons and Jehovah's
    Witnesses, and the beat goes on.

    All Christians are theists, but theists and deists go in all
    directions. Satan believes in God. The bottom line is that there is
    no hope of salvation for those who simply believe in God. The only
    hope is for followers of Christ.

    Those of us who are apologists and try to gain converts by spreading
    the gospel message, find our efforts hindered by ignorance and
    arrogance. Confronting ignorance is easier because we can start with
    a blank slate. For those caught up in cults and false religions,
    false teaching has to be dispelled first before we can present our
    case. Sometimes their faith in what they have learned from those
    they have trusted is too strong to dent.

    Anti-evolutionism in the name of God is just another false teaching.
    It serves no useful purpose, and merely adds to the overall confusion
    that inhibits potential believers.

    It is difficult enough to make inroads against the layers of
    skepticism that have always existed. Now we have to convince
    educated non-Christians that we who are followers of Christ do not
    reside in scientific la la land. For all their efforts those theists
    you named, steeped in anti-scientism, make our task harder, not

    Dick Fischer - The Origins Solution -
    "The answer we should have known about 150 years ago"

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