Dick, I liked your story, doesn't apply, though.
Dick Fischer wrote on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:27 PM
>Glenn, you have repeatedly objected as to how Noah's boat got from
>Shuruppak in southern Mesopotamia to the mountains (hills) of Ararat
>(Urartu, Armenia). The boat had to move north and east against the
>topography. Yet you seem to act as if this presents no problem at
>all to a Noah whom you posit lived 5.5 million years ago in the
>Mediterranean basin when the infilling of the Mediterranean sea could
>have floated the boat to no higher than sea level.
Dick that is all I ever said he did float to. If you actually would read
the book or understand what I am saying, you wouldn't be surprised by this.
>I would suggest that the biblical landing site named in Genesis
>presents just as formidable an obstacle to your scenario as it does
>to mine. You even have an intermediate mountain range between the
>Mediterranean sea and the mountains (or hills) of Armenia. Punting
>won't help with that. Notwithstanding I would love to see your
>treatise on the techniques of Australopithicine shipbuilding. A bit
>more complicated than bone flutes.
Logical fallacy of double assumption. You assume I have the piths building
things I don't. I have said this to you before but you don't listen--never
do. The first and second appearance of any species in the fossil record is
associated with long temporal gaps. The oldest known H. erectus is not the
very oldest H. erectus. Fossils only happen when a species becomes
widespread enough to have a good chance of being fossilized. Often, early
in a species existence, that means millions of years between known
fossilization events. I listed a list of the time between fossilizations
for many groups in a post to you
If you understood the fossil record you would understand that a gap of 3
million years is nothing when it comes to the time between fossilization
events for rare species. H. erectus was not created 2 million years ago, he
was on earth before then but left no or only rare fossils. I will post the
list again to refresh your memory. Try to understand the implications here.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. That too is a logical
fallacy you are making. Here are the time gaps between the first and second
fossilizations of various groups.
caecilians 100 million years
tetrapod 7 million years
dinosaur 12 million years
african turtle 60 myr
tarsier 30 myr
birds 8 myr
coprolites 22 myr
mushrooms 69 myr
sharks 25 myr
vascular plants 20 myr
tube worms 420 myr
pollen eating insect 150 myr
proboscidean 10 myr
chordate 10 myr
crayfish 65 myr
Tribosphenida 25 myr
birds with beaks 65 myr
ascomycetous fungi 250 myr
angiosperm 10 myr
archaeocete whale 3.5 myr
therizinosaur 94 myr
Maldybulakia arthropod 40 myr
grass 30 myr
sponges 50 myr
gorilla 3.5 myr
Onychophoreans 210 myr
As to when the oldest boat was, we absolutely know that the oldest boat was
800,000 years ago, because mankind crossed the ocean at that point. What we
don't know is how much further back boat building goes. Given the gaps
above, do you know when the oldest known boat is? about 8,400 years ago.
For the first 791,000 years of KNOWN boat building experience, there are NO
fossilized boats. Similarly, just because we don't have a fossil H.
erectus earlier doesn't mean they didn't exist.
For documentation on the evidence for ocean crossing see M. J. Morwood, et
al., "Fission-track ages of Stone
Tools and Fossils on the East Indonesian Island of Flores," Nature
Questions for you Dick. Do you still think that the very first H. erectus
fossil was the very first H. erectus?
Do you still think I hold that Australopithecus built the boat? (Hint: I
Do you still think I have the ark crawl to your landing site? (Hint: I
Do I think you will remember this next time we discuss it? (Hint: I doubt
it You like your caricature too much)
for lots of creation/evolution information
personal stories of struggle
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