RE: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views

From: Alexanian, Moorad <alexanian@uncw.edu>
Date: Sun Jan 20 2008 - 08:19:15 EST

God did create a separate from Himself creation through Christ, which He sustains. A human being is the "detector" of the supernatural. The subject matter of science is data that can be collected, in principle, solely by purely physical devices.

 

Moorad

________________________________

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 10:45 PM
To: Alexanian, Moorad
Cc: dickfischer@verizon.net; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views

"Metaphysical possibilities" are not an open invitation to chaos. Every
such possibility must function within a broad philosophical system. You
should recognize that all theists recognize a Creator constantly active
in the universe. Note Colossians 1:17. It does not hold for deism, but
seems to hold in panentheism.

What scientific instrument do you use to detect supernatural events?
Dave (ASA)

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 16:54:10 -0500 "Alexanian, Moorad"
<alexanian@uncw.edu> writes:
> Your last sentence opens all sorts of metaphysical possibilities. If
> purely physical measurements cannot detect a supernatural event, how
> can anyone deny an intelligence or an Intelligent Designer behind
> the workings of Nature?
>
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
> Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 1:25 PM
> To: Alexanian, Moorad
> Cc: dickfischer@verizon.net; asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views
>
>
>
> Seems to me that Miller reconciles his faith as does the current
> pope.
> While the latter has sometimes appeared to support ID, he also backs
> off
> from such views. Certainly John Paul II specified that organic
> evolution
> is more than a possibility.
>
> Transubsubstanciation holds that the elements are transformed into
> the
> body and blood of Christ without change in the accidents. So,
> modernizing
> the view, the chemistry before and after should be the same. This
> lends
> credence to a strengthened version of your last sentence.
> Dave (ASA)
>
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:58:38 -0500 "Alexanian, Moorad"
> <alexanian@uncw.edu> writes:
> > I asked myself that question with regard to Kenneth
> Miller---Finding
> > Darwin's God. Surely, Miller can do all sorts of experiments and
> > determine all the physical properties of wine and bread before
> and
> > after the transubstantiation. How then does Miller reconcile his
> > Catholic faith with evolution is beyond me? Unless, of course, it
> > may be that I understand neither Miller's Catholicism nor
> evolution.
> >
> >
> >
> > Moorad
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of Dick Fischer
> > Sent: Sat 1/19/2008 11:35 AM
> > To: ASA
> > Subject: RE: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views
> >
> >
> >
> > Does every Catholic believe in transubstantiation (that the wine
> > consumed during communion physically turns into the blood of
> > Christ)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dick Fischer
> >
> > Dick Fischer, Genesis Proclaimed Association
> >
> > Finding Harmony in Bible, Science, and History
> >
> > www.genesisproclaimed.org <http://www.genesisproclaimed.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> > On Behalf Of David Opderbeck
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:02 PM
> > To: ASA list
> > Subject: [asa] Confessional Statements and TE Views
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm curious how TE's who are part of a confessional tradition
> > understand their confessions with respect to original sin. For
> > example, if you're Anglican, CRC, or Lutheran, and a TE who
> accepts
> > human evolution, can you in good conscience assent to your
> > confessional statements concerning original sin (below)? Is there
> a
> > tradition within protestant confessional churches of some
> > flexibility in personal interpretation of the confessions?
> > (Obviously I'm betraying my very low-church evangelical roots
> here).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For example, the 39 Articles (Anglican / Episcopal) say:
> >
> >
> >
> > IX. Of Original or Birth-Sin.
> > Original sin standeth not in the following of Adam, (as the
> Pelagians
> > do vainly talk;) but it is the fault and corruption of the Nature
> of
> > every man, that naturally is engendered of the offspring of Adam;
> > whereby man is very far gone from original righteousness, and is
> of
> > his own nature inclined to evil, so that the flesh lusteth always
> > contrary to the Spirit; and therefore in every person born into
> this
> > world, it deserveth God's wrath and damnation. And this infection
> of
> > nature doth remain, yea in them that are regenerated; whereby the
> > lust of the flesh, called in Greek, pvna sapks, (which some do
> > expound the wisdom, some sensuality, some the affection, some the
> > desire, of the flesh), is not subject to the Law of God. And
> > although there is no condemnation for them that believe and are
> > baptized; yet the Apostle doth confess, that concupiscence and
> lust
> > hath of itself the nature of sin.
> >
> > The Belgic Confession (CRC) says:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Article 16
> >
> >
> > The Doctrine of Election
> > We believe that-
> > all Adam's descendants having thus fallen
> > into perdition and ruin
> > by the sin of the first man-
> >
> > The Augsburg Confession (Lutheran) says:
> >
> > Article II: Of Original Sin.
> >
> > 1] Also they teach that since the fall of Adam all men begotten
> in
> > the natural way are born with sin, that is, without the fear of
> God,
> > without trust in God, and with 2] concupiscence; and that this
> > disease, or vice of origin, is truly sin, even now condemning and
> > bringing eternal death upon those not born again through Baptism
> and
> > the Holy Ghost.
> >
> > 3] They condemn the Pelagians and others who deny that original
> > depravity is sin, and who, to obscure the glory of Christ's merit
> > and benefits, argue that man can be justified before God by his
> own
> > strength and reason.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> > "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

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Received on Sun Jan 20 08:20:19 2008

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